Should I convert my Honda Airwave into a semi CNG?? Gas is halfprice of…er…gas.

Channel NewsAsia - 1 hour 37 minutes ago

More motorists opt for bi—fuel cars to cut costs, save environment

SINGAPORE: More motorists are converting their cars to run on two types of fuel — compressed natural gas (CNG) and regular petrol.

In Singapore, CNG conversion workshop C. Melchers—Galileo has taken the lead in converting regular cars to bi—fuel cars. It has seen a 50 per cent increase in demand since last November.

Gilbert von der Aue, sales manager at C. Melchers, said: "We started last November in this workshop. Ever since then, we’ve done 400 cars. We convert 80 cars per month currently, and from next month onwards we’ll be doing 120 cars. We have a waiting list of about six months."

The initial outlay cost to convert a regular car is almost S$4,000. But in the long term, it will cost less to own a bi—fuel car.

"CNG is so much cheaper than petrol. It’s about a third the cost of petrol. So I would save about 70 per cent if I drive on CNG instead of driving on petrol. On top of that, CNG runs cleaner so I don’t have to do an oil change as often as I would if I had a petrol or diesel engine."

"It makes sense financially. You just have to pay one time but you save the environment. That’s the whole reason for it," said a member of the public.

"If it’s safe, if it’s more economical, why not?" said another.

C. Melchers said it is targeting middle— to lower—income Singaporeans because they are the ones who will benefit the most from cost savings.

But when it comes to cars, cost is definitely not the only consideration.

"For me, I prefer performance cars. It’s great to save the world but I didn’t get this car for nothing. I won’t be converting soon," said a member of the public who drives a sports car.

But more may change their minds as petrol prices get higher. Currently, a litre of 95—octane unleaded petrol costs about S$2.08, but a kilogram of CNG is only between S$1.18 and S$1.24.

However, not everyone is swayed because right now there are only two stations accessible to the public on mainland Singapore — one at Jalan Buroh in Jurong and the other at Mandai Road in the north.

Three more stations will be ready by the end of this year at Jalan Bukit Merah, Bedok and Serangoon North. — CNA/ac

In other words, yes if you always drive past near one of the CNG stations. No if you don't, for now, as getting there would use up more (both petrol and/or CNG) than if you were to fill up at the nearest petrol station.

Why don't they invest in a water-fuel car instead?

Current petrol driven cars can convert to CNG?  I thought you only have the option to choose conversiowhen buying a new car?  Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Originally posted by Triple_6s:

Current petrol driven cars can convert to CNG?  I thought you only have the option to choose conversiowhen buying a new car?  Correct me if I'm wrong please.

They ment fitting a CNG tank at the car boot of a petrol car so that you can switch between the two.

the price of CNG oso increasing..... if u notice......
it's not even half the price of the average petrol price.. only like 40% cheaper........

by adding 60kg (empty) to 80kg (full) load (the tank) to ur car... u need more gas to run....
if one day siao siao indon dun supply.... then hong gan liao lor........

so actually the cost-savings is not THAT much..............


not sure if u can rely entirely on CNG or oni use CNG when petrol finishes........kinda like a "failover"....

can try the  pure  cng and hybrid. ultimate saver

seow liao....kee kah lah chiah liao!!!

It leaves me more job to do

i read that conversion to cng wait list is 6 months....flavor of the month? i dislike having a cylinder gas tank on my car boot.

You're better off going for diesel than CNG.Once the diesel taxes are reduced to insignificant amount,u get to enjoy good fuel consumption and of course - the benefit of a turbocharged engine(or even twin-)

If you install the CNG and put in the cylinder, your car might not even have enough space to put in luggages. Its okay if you dont travel overseas on luggages though.

cng isnt really that cost saving. its like driving an extra person around with u. u need to step on the gas harder which burns more fuel. so in the end, the amount saved is MINIMAL. i rather go for a diesel or hybrid car.

unknown_X- yes you may be right to use diesel but not many cars are running diesel at present. as for hybrid -not sure went the battery can last and also it expensive to have a change or replacement of battery after the cycle is up.

well as for cng- it think there some grey areas that need to look at.  our home cooking gas the hoses and the valve is a must that need to replace every 5 years worry. so what about cng.

so i think, have to wait and see wat next? as they may say it safe but how safe is it.

If I am in Europe now, I would have bought a diesel car long ago because of their reasonable diesel tax. In S'pore, even with the govt reducing diesel car tax, the higher cost of tax is going to eat into your fuel that you save when driving a diesel.

So, currently, there is little point in buying diesel car in S'pore, but if the govt would not be so narrow minded and think that diesel is dirty, I would consider buying a diesel car in the future.

Diesel has much better fuel economy than petrol and currently, diesel is cheaper than petrol, though diesel price in increasing rapidly. For city driving, diesel essentially feels more pwoerful than petrol cars because of higher torque.

Hyrbrids to me are quite rubbish unless you drive at 40km/h or less everywhere. It feels sugglish and it cost so much more than their normal counterparts. The fuel saved is not very significant either, not significant enough to cover the extra price you pay for the car at first. Until they improve hyrpid technology, buying hybrid cars now is a waste of money.

That's my opinion on our environmentally 'friendly' cars. You may not agree with all of my points, but I am still entitled to voice out my opinion here :)

Originally posted by Ferrari_RoXz:

If I am in Europe now, I would have bought a diesel car long ago because of their reasonable diesel tax. In S'pore, even with the govt reducing diesel car tax, the higher cost of tax is going to eat into your fuel that you save when driving a diesel.

So, currently, there is little point in buying diesel car in S'pore, but if the govt would not be so narrow minded and think that diesel is dirty, I would consider buying a diesel car in the future.

Diesel has much better fuel economy than petrol and currently, diesel is cheaper than petrol, though diesel price in increasing rapidly. For city driving, diesel essentially feels more pwoerful than petrol cars because of higher torque.

Hyrbrids to me are quite rubbish unless you drive at 40km/h or less everywhere. It feels sugglish and it cost so much more than their normal counterparts. The fuel saved is not very significant either, not significant enough to cover the extra price you pay for the car at first. Until they improve hyrpid technology, buying hybrid cars now is a waste of money.

That's my opinion on our environmentally 'friendly' cars. You may not agree with all of my points, but I am still entitled to voice out my opinion here :)

well its proven that a E90 BMW M3 is more economical than a toyota pirius....lol

Originally posted by AE86tofu:

well its proven that a E90 BMW M3 is more economical than a toyota pirius....lol

Ya, I saw that Season 11 episode 1 of Top Gear. So funny la, I bet people at the Hybrid department of Toyota will be hopping mad! This goes to show that even a V8 engine can be more economical than some crappy 4 cylinder + electrict motor hybrid.

Channel NewsAsia - Wednesday, July 9

Boom in CNG car sales seen in Singapore

SINGAPORE: Companies selling cars fuelled by Compressed Natural Gas, or CNG, are seeing a boom in sales.

Rising petrol prices and the Green Tax Rebate are driving motorists to switch.

"Just six months ago we (sold) an average of 190 cars a month, of which only 20 to 30 per cent are CNG cars. Today we (sell) about 250 cars a month, out of which 70 per cent are CNG cars," said Valerie Tan, managing director of Pinnacle Motors.

Many customers have been lured by cheaper fuel bills and the Green Tax Rebate, which gives them a 40 per cent discount off the car’s Open Market Value.

One such person is Melvin Toh, whose budget has been increased when he bought a new CNG car earlier this year.

The bachelor, who drives approximately 700 kilometres a week, rarely uses the boot, so the space taken up by the CNG tank is not a problem.

However, Toh, who lives in Toa Payoh, has to drive to Mandai Link every two to three days to fill up with CNG.

There are currently two CNG stations accessible to the public on mainland Singapore — one at Jalan Buroh in Jurong and the other in Mandai Link in the north. A third is operating on Jurong Island.

"Of course it is a bit inaccessible, but I still feel that because I want to reduce my transport costs it’s still worth it," said Toh.

The Automobile Association of Singapore advises motorists to take into consideration the travelling time required to the three refuelling stations in Singapore, and the ease of refuelling in order to maximise their cost and fuel savings.

The association said it receives regular enquiries from its members about the installation of CNG technology. It will be holding a CNG Conversion Workshop on July 26, but due to strong demand, a second workshop will be added.

A third CNG refuelling station will be ready in Serangoon North by February 2009.

Sembcorp Gas, which runs the Jalan Buroh station in Jurong, said demand there has exceeded expectations. And the company is looking for other suitable locations.

Despite it being more inconvenient for CNG car owners to fuel up, significant savings have been found.

To fuel a 1.5 litre car to drive 200 kilometres, it will cost about S$11.50 using CNG, based on the current pump price at Jalan Buroh, compared to S$34.20 before discount if a 95 Octane petrol is used.

With a saving of S$22.70, the real question should be how much time and effort is one truly prepared to spend to go green? —CNA/os

Petrol prices shot up and converting to CNG becomes an attractive option. Now the converts are crying foul. After spending so much money to convert their petrol cars to CNG, they are now at the mercy of the CNG suppliers. With only two points, maybe more later, it is a MONOPOLY!

CNG price has shot up by 25% in 3 months from $1.28 per kg to $1.59. And prices of CNG were not affected like the speculation in oil. Producer price of CNG was stable during the whole duration.

quoted from http://sgblogs.com/entry/switching-trap/219595

Price have really increased to 1.59 but only at mandai. The one at jalan buroh is cheaper.

Originally posted by nehpyh:

Should I convert my Honda Airwave into a semi CNG?? Gas is halfprice of…er…gas.

There are many factors to consider.

1) One more CNG cylinder = weight of one more person.

2) One more cylinder = not much place to put luggages.

3) CNG Gas is not halfprice of petrol. In fact, price of CNG gas is about 1.59 currently while fuel is 2.134 (station discount, not counting credit card discount). Thats 75% of the price of petrol.

4) Not enough CNG gas station. You probably have to travel a lot more distance just to pump CNG.

5) conversion may void the car's warranty, and could result in a slight drop in power.

6) If your car is not originally fitted with CNG cylinder, you may have to open your car boot everytime you require to regas. Imagine having to open the boot everytime and people can peek into what you put and even steal things from there?

7) Upgrading to hybrid is not cheap (at around 4k).

7) Lastly, one litre of CNG gas may not last as long as one litre of 95 grade petrol.

 

http://talkback.stomp.com.sg/forums/showthread.php?t=38499

More cars being retrofitted with CNG

More private cars were fitted with Compressed Natural Gas or CNG kits last month compared to the first five months of this year.

Cars fitted with such kits can run on both petrol and natural gas.

Latest figures from the Land Transport Authority show that there are just over 1,000 such bi-fuel cars on the road last month.

This is a jump of nearly 300 from the month of May, and four times as many compared to the whole of last year.

The rate of increase of CNG cars also outpaces that of hybrids which run on petrol and electricity.

While an average of 100 hybrid cars were added to the roads every month from January to June this year,

bi-fuel car additions rose from an initial average of 50 to later 200 then 300 last month.

Yet both these car types represent but 0.5 percent of the total private car population here, which now stands at 530,000.

The figures are borne out by CNG retrofitting companies like C Melchers, which are seeing a backlog of customer requests and have hired more manpower to keep up with conversion demands.

They say demand is set to rise when two more CNG refuelling stations are built later this year, in addition to the current three.

But with natural gas prices rising in tandem with petrol increases, as well as CNG's diminishing supply from its growing popularity,

Environment Economist Tomoki Fujii feels natural gas is not the best alternative to oil in the long-term.

So while it makes sense for buses and taxis to run on CNG, for private car owners, the Singapore Management University Assistant Professor feels the best way to go green is still to use less petrol whenever possible.

"For the average commuters it takes a long time to get back the returns even if the price of oil continues to rise faster than CNG so it still makes sense to use ordinary cars, this includes cars like hybrids and cars that operate on gasoline." --938Live

When petrol prices dropped, did CNG prices drop as well? should have right...since both are hydrocarbons.

i followed my friend to pump CNG into his car at jln buroh.

please dont even consider CNG. it took us 40mins(we were the 8th car there). waste of time!