Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Just a sharing.

Yesterday I was woken up by my coughing.... and when I woke up I noticed my body is coughing spontaneously by its own, automatically, without control! It feels a bit weird and disorientating when I first noticed it. But since then I have noticed it several times. It has always been so.

It's not 'I' or 'me' that have been been coughing all the while.... that is just an assumption. In reality it is more like the the universe is coughing my body... and there is no identification of the body as 'me' or 'mine'.

Similarly am I breathing or am I being breathed? I guess the truth is more like 'the entire universe is breathing'.

Indeed a precious experience but not expressed as it is. :P

You may want to ask yourself the following questions:

1.  Any idea why u r experiencing it this way this time? (The condition that give rise to this sensation)?

2.  If it is as described, is there 'an awareness' here realising that there is 'your body coughing spontaneously by its own'?

3  How was the feeling like?

Happy exploring!

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

 

"u must also be able to that whereever it is, it's home."

You mean 'see'?

Yes typo. :P

It means u must also be able to see it from the angle of "whereever we are, it's home."

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

I see... thanks :)

We cannot just understand non-abiding as not resting the mind anywere, u must also be able to that whereever it is, it's home.

Similarly after Form is Emptiness, you must see the fabric and texture of Emptiness.

:)

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

I see... thanks for the explanation.

By the way is this 'Form is Emptiness' (especially the highlighted parts):

http://itisnotreal.com/subpage22.html

Hi AEN,

You must first know that “Emptiness” cannot be understood by second hand knowledge except by prajna wisdom.  Prajna is a form of intuitive insight of ‘emptiness’; a kind of direct knowing.  You must be deeply aware of this “direct without intermediary” sort of perception -- too direct to have subject-object gap, too short to have time, too simple to have thoughts.

I will not comment on the article but just want you to be clearly aware of this immediate sort of seeing.  An experience of the Eternal Witness is not a form of knowledge that is derived from relating, associating, deducing or inducing anything.  It is not about thinking, there are no thoughts.  It is a whole and complete sense of ‘I’; a pure sense of existence free from all artificialities.  Unlike relative knowledge that always requires an element of faith to bridge the gap as there is no certainty of knowledge, the experience of Eternal Witness is completely free from doubts.  A practitioner is fully convinced, unshakeable and unmovable; not even Buddha can shake his insight. 

It is this sort of insight that must arise when it comes to spirituality.  It is the ‘wisdom eye’ that can see the whole of ‘sound’ by being ‘sound’.  It is the same ‘eye’ that sees ‘anatta’ and ‘emptiness’.  After the maturing of insight, one will naturally understands that ‘Eternal Witness’ is no more “purer” than the arising and passing sound, the empty phenomena.  It is just the awakening of this non-dual eye.

Therefore after some pointers, to progress further and truly know, reflecting relatively will not help; you should start to let go completely and learnt the art of feeling directly and wholly.  Buddha taught mindfulness that practices bare attention at the same time experience the impermanent nature of all arising and passing phenomena.  We should not take this lightly.  We can start from there to awake the intuitive insight of anatta and emptiness. :)

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

What I said here, is not really correct. Thought is, but no thinker. Sound is, but no hearer. Awareness cannot be separated from thoughts and manifestation.

Yes but what said can still have the following senario:

 Just a casual comment on the articles posted:

 

Although it is important to know that "reality is not what we think it is", the articles posted should not stop at 'Form is Emptiness'.  It can be dangerous leading one to an utter state of confusion.  It is better to explore anatta and emptiness by relating it to our daily experiences.  I think there are 2 articles from Toni Packer and Ajahn Amaro that are posted by you that explain anatta and emptiness very well.  They are written from deep experiential insights.  You may want to revisit them. :)

 

Originally posted by longchen:

 

Financially and physically 2008 was a bad year for me too... as i quitted the full time job and got injured. Many a times, the worries contract and make one get lost in the contents and lose sight of the 'indestructable ...' At the same time, the experiences have been 'educational'. 

Indeed challenging but not to lose sight of "this already is non-dual and empty nature" of awareness.  Be bold and make great commitment vow that we will never lose sight in whatever life and whatever realm we are in.

Thurst it deep down into our inmost consciousness.  It will help. :)
 

To me, 'whatever arises already is' is a distinctive stage and insight. It allows me to maintain non-dual in activities... as there is the realisation that  no 'need/effort' can be done to acheive non-dual.

Prior to this insight, there was the effort to drop the 'sense of self'. .. but the mind didn't realise that the effort was the split.

After a while, it gets really clear 'why' there wasn't a split in the first place... and therefore 'how' a split(subject-object division) cannot never occur in reality.

Before 'whatever arises already is' insight there was much unconscious/habitual effort to fix the split. After the insight, the experience is that no-split have ever occured at all... which enable no-self experience to be better 'integrated' with activities. With this, the benefits of the practice is more clearly experienced.

Yes and great insight!

 

Before maturity of insight, one may enter into 60-90 days of uninterrupted state of non-dual presence and suddenly sank back into a divided state of consciousness for unknown reasons.  This can continue for a 2-3 cycles then insight matures and lucidity and innate freedom becomes permanent during the conscious state.  Practitioner now moves from a ‘concentrative’ to an effortless mode.  It no more matters whether there is intention or no intention, whatever arises always is non-dual awareness.

 

In this phase, all the qualities of non-dual presence begin to come together as one; from pristineness to non-dual to oneness to spontaneity, all intertwined into one single experience.  Practitioner begins to embrace himself into the Maha world of Suchness!

Now even a simple breathe is like the entire universe breathing.  It is no more just a liberating experience!  It is Maha! 

In all mundane activities,

From seeing, tasting, drinking, walking…

All is Maha!

 

Great and miraculous!

 

Happy Journey!

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Thanks for writing such a detailed and clear post on the relation and importance of the syncing of 'view, path, fruition'... I think I understand it better now :)

This is an excellent article, there many good pointers.  You should go through it few more times.

As this article is long, it is easy to get ourselves lost by the long descriptions of the various techniques of practice.  Readers may also wonder why the continual emphasis by the author that we are not perceiving reality as it is, what perceived is merely our cognitive schema of reality.  What’s wrong with having a schema of reality?  The key lies in the word is ‘split’ or ‘divided’; because any form of division is suffering.

It is easier to understand the article if we have a simple summary of the following points in mind before reading the passage:

1. The realization of any form of ‘split’ is suffering.
2. What causes split.
3. The various techniques that dissolve the split.
4. Glimpses of non-duality, no-split.
5. Realization that awareness by nature is without split.

Point 5 is important to understand self-liberation.  This is one part the author is a bit vague when attempting to outline the difference between spontaneous transmutation and self-liberation.  Spontaneous transmutation is a sort of practice until effortless whereas self-liberation is effortlessness that arises due to the deepest insight of our non-dual and empty nature.  After going through all the hard work and practices, it is unveiled that Awareness is already and always non-dual in nature and thus self-liberation. Practice after that takes a different form.  Whatever arises already is and practice is found in all activities; it becomes instant, dynamic and spontaneous. The whole of enlightenment is practice and as the modern Zen master Bernie Glassman said, “We practice because we are enlightened”. :)

Originally posted by longchen:

Fully agree with AEN.

I think liberation is not so easy... not that I am there.

Too often we think we are there when in fact we are still far away from it. I am certainly not there... but I have read several times that completing the Dzogchen practice takes at least 60 years of practice.

The most subtle obscurations are the most normal and natural ones to us. So natural that it is transparent  or invisible to us.

We are all born with the various passions (5 elements manifestations) in different degree. These passions are so natural that we think that we are free of them. Even the natural habit of blocking any thoughts/feelings that are deem as unwholesome is part of the passion... depending on our personality makeup. We may block using fear, anger, pride etc. 

Many time we treasure the non-dual glimpses so much that we get distracted in all the other times. When dualism takes over, we will not be able to detect it at that moment... because the conditionings are so invisible and natural.

Just a sharing

 

 

Yes Longchen, what you said is very true  -- The most subtle obscurations are the most normal and natural ones to us. So natural that it is transparent  or invisible to us.

Because it is difficult to see, that makes its arising precious.  The past few months have been very challenging for my business too but I will take it as a golden opportunity for my practice.  :)

In whatever case, whenever we are thrown out of non-dual, it is always due to the imaturity of insight of our non-dual and empty nature.  To conciousness, it is always insights that liberates.  Spontaneous perfection is not about the path we adopt, it is that ultimate and thorough insight that allows us to willingly, fearlessly and unreservedly open to whatever that arises; for whatever arises is always to liberate itself when experienced as non-dual and empty awareness.

 

 

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Don't dismiss this article too quickly before understanding what it is saying. It contains very important points and the essence and different levels of practice (the problems of pre-reflective identification, to the practice of conceptual reflection, to pure witnessing, to transformation and self-liberation -- and the difference between dualistic and non-dualistic mode of cognition, and the differences and links between psychotherapy and spirituality) and their differences. He has clearly pointed out all the subtleties. With this rare depth of clarity the writer is obviously writing from deep levels of awakening. The article is long but definitely worth reading because it is very rare to have someone write so clearly.

The essence of liberation (which is the goal of all Buddhadharma) is being taught but as what my Taiwanese teacher and Thusness would often say -- few people would recognise what's being said, and it's sad that the majority of people can't recognise jewels (dharma) when they're right in front of them and think they're stones or pieces of glass.

Ha…this is a very late reply and yes what you said is very true.

It is difficult to have someone that is so-trained academically and scientifically to provide us such deep insight in the spiritual discipline.  The article is very clear, well structured and organized.  We should learn how to treasure good stuff. :)

I will just jot down some of my thoughts after reading it.
 
Although much is mentioned in the article about divided consciousness, the ‘strength’ of making a practitioner sink back to a divided consciousness is overlooked.  We should never underestimate the power of this bond.  That is, given a1000 practitioners that has sufficient glimpses of the pristine-ness or even awaken to the non-dual nature of Awareness, the tendency for these practitioners to fall back to ’divided consciousness’ remains surprisingly strong.  Why despite all the blissful experiences, the tendency to fall back to a divided state continues to be powerfully strong?  In transpersonal psychology, holotropic breathwork is one technique that deals with the deeply held bond of the subconscious and unconscious mind.  Unleashing these deeply held bonds can cause transpersonal experiences that include communication with mythic deties, recalling past life memories, OBEs and memories of perinatal events.  Regardless of whether these experiences are delusional or hallucinatory, we must not overlook the vast impact of ‘bonds’ on consciousness.

Next, I will just touch a little on the importance of the relationship between the view, path and fruition as I think to experience the therapeutic effect from a particular form of practice, “sync-ing” the view, path and fruition is crucial.  The significance of the relationship surfaced while I was reading this article and was triggered by your question 2 days back about whether Genpo Roshi is talking about anatta in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0LiCh9eZEo. 

While Dr. John Welwood outlined the different path of practices from pre-reflective identification, to the practice of conceptual reflection, to pure witnessing, to transformation and self-liberation, his focus is mainly on the aspect of how direct and effective each method is in narrowing the gap of subject-object duality.  To me it is more important to have clarity on the exact experiential fruition that can be derived from adopting a particular view and path of practice.

For example if someone were to ask will dissolving ‘personality’ results in a non-dual experience?  We need to know what the experience of “impersonality” is like and what methods of practice that will lead to the experience of “impersonality” and the role “impersonality” plays in non-dual presence.

To illustrate, let’s take the question you asked about Genpo Roshi.  There is no doubt that Genpo Roshi is speaking about anatta -- “there is witnessing, there is no witness”.  However the ‘path’ he uses is clearly a ‘desync’ from his ‘views’ of  anatta.  He uses a ‘stepping back witnessing method’ which is essentially a reflective process; frankly using the “stepping back technique” to experience anatta is quite contradicting and can be counter-productive.  I must say it is not an effective way to bring about an experiential non-dual insight of anatta. 

In Zen tradition, different koan were meant for different purposes.  For example the experience derived from the koan “before birth who are you?” is not the same as the Hakuin’s koan of “what is the sound of one hand clapping?”  The five categories of koan in Zen ranges from hosshin that give practitioner the first glimpse of ultimate reality to five-ranks that aims to awaken practitioner the spontaneous unity of relative and absolute.

Similarly different techniques can also be devised to allow a practitioner to experience the different qualities of Awareness.  The experience of “impersonality” is not the same as the experience of the “pristineness” of our nature; the experience of “oneness” is also not the same experience as spontaneity; the experience of non-dual without a subject and object split does not necessary result in the thorough insight of anatta; the experience of anatta is also not the same experience when a practitioner thoroughly sees the emptiness nature of phenomena.  Thus, the master that prescribes the medicine must have deep clarity and wisdom of the view, path, fruition and conditions of the students. It is not a one for all sort of medicine.

Lastly no one religion has monopoly over Truth much less a tradition.  The techniques of spontaneous perfection in Mahamudra and self-liberation in Dzogchen that are described by Dr. John Welwood will naturally be realized by a Zen practitioner that passes the five-rank koan.  Even in the basic teachings of Buddha, as long as we have complete and thorough insight of anatta and the principle of Dependent Origination, practitioners will also naturally enters the pathless path of self-liberation.  :)

Happy New Year to you too!

Amidst this once in a century sort of financial crisis and witnessing life savings go poof overnight, people tend to be more self-centered.  A timely reminder indeed!

Happy New Year to Everyone!

Originally posted by Isis:

Hi all, this has became a dilemma for me.

My initial plan is to quit the present job in January to attend a four month retreat (one in Feb and another one from March to June). However, I’m afraid that I couldn’t get a job due to the recent economy crisis after the 4 months retreat.  I have to repay school my school loan as such and I do not want to cause worries for my parents.

The three month retreat is probably the last of his retreat as the teacher might be retiring. I find it a rare opportunity to be able to attend two retreats by two good meditation teachers in a time period of four months.

However, life is uncertain. Economy is uncertain. Death is uncertain. I don’t know if I would let go of such opportunity or should I wait for another chances to come.

hmmmmmm

Hi Isis,

 

My advice is to stay on with your present job now.  I have never seen such terrible fear in the market before, not even during the 1997 financial crisis.  The coming crisis will create a lot of instability therefore not only your current job is uncertain, your parent's jobs are equally in doubt.  Your parents will have a lot to cope so you are right that you should not add to their worries.

 

With regards to practice, my opinion is practice should start with right view of our pristine nature.  Try to spend quality hours penetrating deeply into the truth of the 5 aggregates, 18 Dhatus and Dependent Origination till you have non-conceptual experience of these teachings.  It is important to re-orientate our 'self' view with the Buddha's teachings.  It will not be obvious how and why these teachings lead to liberation until we are able to stop imputing the sense of onto our momentary experiences.  Do take it seriously and practice with utmost sincerity.   

 

With firmly established right view as the cause and conditions perpectually arising, all will fall in place so not to worry too much about missing opporutnities. 

 

Laslty I am truly glad that Dharma has created such impact in you, continue the zeal and heart for dharma and you will not regret. 

 

May you be enlightened of your empty pristine nature this life. :)

 

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

After some discussion with Thusness, there should be some corrections with the above translation I've gotten from the internet:

What discussed is merely a sharing of my views and experiences, nothing authentic.

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

若智慧明了，此心号名法性，亦名解脱。

A better way to translate this should be:

With the illumination of wisdom (prajna), mind is known as Dharma Nature, mind is known as Liberation.

-----

comments: It is important to know that mind is itself liberation.  That is why knowing the nature of our mind is the way of liberation.  If Liberation is not experienced, then the clarity is still not there.  There is no true understanding of what mind is.

Liberation is this Pristine Awareness itself in its natural state.  That is why understanding this Pristine Awareness is the direct path towards liberation.  If we cannot see that the 5 aggregates are themselves our Buddha Nature, then we will not understand there is nothing to shunt from the transience.  Thought liberates, sound liberates, tastes liberates.  The transience liberates.  If we do not see that, then we are taking a gradual path.  It is also not advisable to speak too much about spontaneous arising or self liberation.  It can be quite misleading.

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Although Advaita Vedanta spoke of Awareness, awareness is not the transience (thoughts, sound...etc)

This is not to pick on Advaita Vedenta teachings.  Phrase like “everything arises from Emptiness and subsides back to Emptiness” is equally misleading.  By doing so, we have made ‘Emptiness’ into a metaphysical essence; similarly not to make the same mistake for “causes and conditions”, not to objectify it into a metaphysical essence.  All are provision terms to point to our insubstaintial, essenceless and interdependent nature.

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

应眼见色，应耳闻声，应鼻嗅香，应舌知味，乃至施为运动，皆是自心。

A better way to translate should be:

With the condition of the eye, forms are seen, With the condition of ears, sounds are heard, With the condition of nose, smells are smelled, With the condition of tongue, tastes are tasted, every movement or states are all one's Mind.

-----

comments:

Although Advaita Vedanta spoke of Awareness, awareness is not the transience (thoughts, sound...etc) But here there are 2 important points to take note. First is that Buddha Nature is the transience. Second it is more of '应'. Means with the condition of the eye, forms arise.  With ears, sound arises.

Awareness is not like a mirror reflecting but rather a manifesation. Luminosity is an arising luminous manifestation rather than a mirror reflecting. The center here is being replaced with Dependent Origination, the experience however is non-dual.

One must learn how to see Appearances as Awareness and all others as conditions. Example, sound is awareness. The person, the stick, the bell, hitting, air, ears...are conditions. One should learn to see in this way. All problems arise because we cannot experience Awareness this way.

Conventionally we experience in the form of subject and object interaction taking place in a space-time continuum. This is just an assumption. Experientially it is not so. One should learn to experience awareness as the manifestation. There is no subject, there is only and always manifestation, all else are conditions of arising. All these are just provisional explanations for one to understand.

What seen is Awareness.  What heard is Awareness.  All experiences are non-dual in nature.  However this non-dual luminosity cannot be understood apart from the ‘causes and conditions’ of arising.  Therefore do not see ‘yin’ as Awareness interacting with external conditions.  If you see it as so, then it still falls in the category of mirror-reflecting.  Rather see it as an instantaneous manifestation where nothing excluded.  As if the universe is giving its very best for this moment to arise.  A moment is complete and non-dual.  Vividly manifest and thorough gone leaving no traces.

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

I see... Thanks, Thusness :)

Just a sharing. I am full of joy. :)

 

Try not to talk too much about spontaneous arising; before the thorough experience of anatta and the replacement of the core, the center with Dependent Origination, there will be no true understanding of spontaneous arising and effortlessness.

 

Practice hard so that you may come to know that whatever said is only relevant conventionally. Ultimately, everything is alright.

 

How amazing!

 

Homage to Buddha, my Teacher.

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

There's this article which I read and think is very good, well written and very practical. It is talks given in retreat, so there is a lot of practical instructions.

The article is about awareness as 'spontaneously arising'. Thusness also thinks that the author is writing from deep non-dual experience and very clear on the experience and understanding of no-self, though the aspect of empty nature arising as Dependent Origination is still missing.

 

The article: http://www.vajraloka.org/docs/pure-awareness.pdf

Another related article, this one I haven't read: http://www.vajraloka.org/tejanandasarticles/Entering%20Pure%20Awareness%20-%208-03.pdf

Yes AEN,

 

Despite all controversies surrounding FWBO, I think this is a good article.  There are just a few points I want to make.

 

Although the article is about the 'spontaneous arising', it is not possible for effortlessness to arise when we treat Awareness to be mirror-like reflecting.  This will become clear only at the later phase of our practice.

 

Even when insight of anatta arises and no-self is experienced, the 'who' may be gone, but still the 'tendency to remain as a center' remains and is taking 'forms' in a very subtle way.  It manifests as the sensation of the 'hereness', 'nowness' and 'this Presence'.  Quickly the 'here and now and presence' becomes the 'goal' of practice.

 

In truth 'here-ness' and 'now-ness' is as inherent as 'selfness' that is equally empty of inherent existence and must be correctly experienced as equally empty (non-inherent) in nature.  Practitioners will have to replace this core with 'dependent orginination' but this need must arise as an insight.  This is the essence of stage 6.

 

The article is also full of dualistic expressions despite his non-dual experiences.  As I have told you before, not to underestimate the impact of the constant chattering in a dualistic manner. If we continuously repeat “phenomenon arises in awareness” and not “as Awareness”, even though there never was a separation, consciousness will see as if there is a separation. Although it may seem to be a casual expression for communication sake, the impact is subtle. In time to come, the slow and subtle impact will make separation appears amazingly real. This is true even for those that have experienced non-duality; they are not spared from it.

 

Lastly never underestimate the strength of the 'bond'.  It is the very reason why we are lost.  The grasping of 'here-ness and now-ness' is also the result of it.  So give equal importance on the aspect that consciousness incessantly creates imprints upon itself and once formed is difficult to break.  Many Advaita as well as Buddhist practitioners that emerge as masters after certain glimpses of our Awareness and its non-dual luminosity often neglect this point.  They got overwhelmed and skewed towards luminosity.  This 'tendency of creating imprints' is as beginless as our non-dual nature, we must see Consciousness as it is. Do take this seriously and there will be no problem understanding why we are lost despite our luminous nature. :)

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

 

Or as Thusness asked, “Without using any languages, ‘I’, ‘me’ or any signs or symbols, how is ‘I’ experienced?”

No AEN, the purpose is just to have a first glimpse of our luminous nature.  The maturing of this lucid and vivid non-dual experience will lead us to the Advaita Vedenta sort of realisation -- the 'Self'. 

 

This glimpse is completely different from the experience of anatta that

 

There is thinking, no thinker
There is sound, no hearer
Suffering exists, no sufferer
Deeds there are, no doer

 

I have repeatedly told you that Anatta is not just a non-dual experience, it must be regarded as a dharma seal.  That all along the dichotomy of a observer and observed duality is an illusion created by due to our deeply rooted inherent and dualistic tendency of seeing things. 

 

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

We can 'be' everything because we already are everything, just that we contract into the false sense of an observer due to delusions.

 

It is better understood as a complete sense of 'Oneness' than as 'Everything'. 

 

When we practice not imputing the 'sense of self' on our experiences, we are effectively going through a process of dissolving the 'mental formation' of the five aggregates into direct experiences of the 18 dhatus (the All).  You may want to understand why this leads to liberation and how dispassion or total willingness to let go is generated along the practice; and what has that got to do with our nature.

 

 

First is ‘someone’ is dropping…

 

Second is dropping appears as a mirror reflecting…

 

Third is there is only endless dropping without footing and mental reasoning…

 

Fourth is dropping as vivid wide opening…

 

Fifth is vivid wide opening as everything…

 

Sixth is only Dharma spontaneously manifesting…

 

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Talks by 元音老人: http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=1672155&iid=9857580

But I don't know which talk did Thusness watched...

Ai yoh... don't over emphaiszed. Told you it is just my opinion.

 

It is at this link http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=3173479

The

心经大意

by 元音老人.

Discern with your own wisdom.  :)

 

 

 

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Updated my first post a little.

I re-read the updated version.  There is clarity in what you wrote about non-duality.  Well written. :)

 

There are some points and questions you may want to take note:

1.  Dissolving subject-object split is not the same as dissolving the 'inherent view'.  They are 2 different bonds and have different impacts and shape our experience of reality; therefore stage 5 an 6 (although it is not right to put them as stages).

 

2.  If phenomena world is not as what it seems to be -- inherent and dualistic, what is a better way to describe the way things are?

Isn't this 'better way' still a form of conceptualization?  Is it wrong to form concepts? 

 

3.  What does 'getting rid of concepts' in the inherent and dualistic way mean?

 

4.  What does 'getting rid of concepts' by way of  emptiness and non-duality mean?

 

5.  After point question 4, re-look how the inherent and dualistic views affect us.  What happen when these views sank deep down into our inmost consciousness.

 

6.  What happen if the right idea of non-dual and emptiness replaces the dualistic and inherent views?

 

7.  Why stess naked awareness in self-liberation?  Why bare attention in vipassana meditation?  Why go before symbols, labels and concepts?

 

8.  Why not jump straight into non-conceptuality and rest in naked awareness?  Is there a need to first purify our views with the dharma seals and emptiness?

 

U may want to use the answers of these questions to relate it back to the topic article on clear light and voidness.

 

 

Just a sharing. Happy exploring. :)

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Consciousness in the context of Buddhist definition usually means subject-object duality and discriminations.

By that definition, I wouldn't say that that which realises is (dualitic) consciousness, but is pure awareness. Dualistic consciousness transforms into insight/wisdom -- aware of its own nondualistic nature as pure awareness.

In other words, it is not the conceptual mind which apprehends the truth, it is the intuitive mind, the clear light mind, it is luminosity itself which apprehends its two-truth (the inseparability of luminosity and emptiness).

'Intuitive'is just a word use to convey to the conventional mind that the One Reality is beyond any conceptualization, verbalization. There is no two mind.

The professor said: "还没有起意识分别这是什么的时候，它就明明白白看见，这是属于前五识加上意识的现量 ..."

From my understanding the appearance before mental perception is not called识.  As my Taiwanese teacher said something like, 一切唯心所现, 唯识所变。

In my opinion, 一切的呈现即'心',有了彼与此的分别即'识'

Hence, 识 is refering to subject/object duality, and refering to discriminations. Our true nature is present even PRIOR to consciousness/识, prior to 分别/discriminations.

What is Mind/心? It is like a mirror -- everything is just reflected clearly. All reflections is not separated or apart from the mirror, neither are they 'in' the mirror (the mirror is not a separate background), rather all reflections are reflections OF the mirror-mind -- everything is just luminous clarity in nature, with emptiness as its essence. Before a moment of thought/perception, there is just pure awareness -- just the pure sensations, thoughts, without dualistic inference/conceptualisation... at that moment it is simply our luminosity.

Separation is 'learnt'. The phenomena world appears to be filled with isolated objects because of our subject-object dualistic and inherent framework of viewing things. It will not be obvious and the views bond us like a magical spell. The two truth here 'serves' as the antedote for the dualistic mind to 'correctly' understand its nature. This is to prevent the dualistic mind from wrongly identifying and get attached to a particular state as the 'ultimate' state. Do take note that a practitioner can be non-dual and yet still attached to 'inherent existence'. There are two different 'bond' having different impacts shaping the way we experience reality.

A very simple analogy my Taiwan teacher gave was that someone asked him "what is awareness?" -- he poked him with a sharp object, he immediately withdraw his hands. My teacher asked him why did you withdraw? He said "I was in pain!" My teacher then told him, the pain and spontaneous withdrawing is all awareness, luminosity itself, our Buddha Nature, but the "I was in pain" was a dualistic inference/perception/thought. It is a projection, a concept, it is not reality.

So what awakens? It is simply awareness, aware of itself, as everything. It is seeing the subject/object dichotomy as a false mental projection without reality: in reality, sound hears, scenery sees, thought thinks, never was there a hearer, seer, thinker. But this must occur as an insight, a quantum shift of perception into the everpresent nature of reality which is beyond conceptual fabrications and the illusory subject/object dichotomy -- it is not by effort, not by forcefully doing away the thoughts... even mindful awareness is only a practice and a means in aiding the development of insight, but the practice itself is still not the insight into that (non-dual & empty luminosity) as our everpresent nature of reality.

As Thusness said in the other thread: In my opinion strong emphasis should also be place on the idea of why non dualistic and non-inherent view is of such importance for leading one to right view of non-conceptuality. Otherwise the dualistic and inherent mind will fabricate various assumed states of non-conceptuality due to its latent tendencies.  That is to 'transform' a limited view to a boundless views lies not in doing away totally with concepts but simply seeing 'non-inherently'.  'Non-conceptuality' and naked awareness will arise eventually with the stability of this important condition.

One more thing... not just the 6th consciousness must be transformed into wisdom. All 8 consciousnesses must be transformed into wisdom, not just the 6th.

From the experience of no-subject-object to emptiness to the right experience of emptiness of all phenomena existence, a practitioner will be gradually free from labels, symbols, verbalization and conceptualization and fully authenticated in non-dual luminous presence 'as' spontaneous arising.  To me, the idea of emptiness will not remain as a concept for long for a practitioner if non-dual insight (non-dual experience with right understanding) arises.

 Just a sharing.

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Allow the muddy waters of mental activity to clear;
Refrain from both positive and negative projection -
leave appearances alone:
The phenomenal world, without addition or subtraction, is Mahamudra.

~ Tilopa

Exactly!

Originally posted by longchen:

Yes, something like that..

Just a sharing...

The most important practice is to learn to drop and 'let go' correctly.

Don't analyse so much... these analysis are all concepts. Dive in without any care!

We will need to 'open up' into the spacious luminosity that have no conceptual thoughts. Here you may notice that you are no longer seeing through the 'physical eye vision'.

If got concept OK... no concept also Ok. Just don't use the will to modify.

Indeed. got or don't have also ok. They are similar to the arising conditions of sound and scenary with the mind as the organ for the arising of mind-consciousness. When sound-consciousness is produced by hitting a bell, being 'silent' is not to be free from the sound of a bell but fully authenticated in the luminous presence in bare with whatever arising conditions. It only becomes a lil more tricky when it comes to concepts because there are more stories. :)

I think the article is very well written. Just a sharing of my opinion:

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

How Voidness Is Known

This is more like creating the necessary condition for knowing ‘voidness’ by first knowing ‘voidness’ conceptually. Perhaps ‘Why’ this is possible is a more important question from a practical standpoint. It relates directly to how consciousness works.

There are two levels of voidness (stong-pa-nyid, Skt. shunyata, emptiness):

1. voidness that is a conceptual construct,
2. voidness that is beyond conceptual constructs.

3. In my opinion, there is no ‘voidness’ that is beyond conceptual constructs. “Voidness that is beyond conceptual constructs” is the direct experience of the Luminosity as the One Reality. Bonded within a dualistic and inherent framework of seeing things, we fail to correctly understand the Emptiness Nature of Luminosity.

    

Voidness, as an absolute absence (med-dgag, nonimplicative negation) of true existence as “this” or “that,” is the conceptual construct or abstraction “there is no such thing as truly existent ‘this’s and ‘that’s.” It can only be known conceptually and is that to which the word or concept “voidness” refers.

Cognizing this level of voidness is a necessary stepping-stone to cognizing definitive voidness, which is beyond all conceptual categories and beyond all words. Although voidness can be referred to by a conceptual construct or word, voidness that is beyond conceptual constructs (definitive voidness) does not correspond to anything a word or concept would correspond to, namely something existing in the fixed box or category of “voidness.”

Thus, the two levels of voidness are not contradictory. It is not that voidness “beyond” is a transcendental level in the sense of being beyond the limits of all possible experience and knowledge, and only accessed through a mystical experience, perhaps gained by the grace of God. It merely means that it is beyond the limits of what conceptual cognition and nonconceptual sensory and mental cognition can cognize.

Voidness as a conceptual construct can only be cognized conceptually. We cognize it conceptually by our mental consciousness giving rise to a mental aspect resembling an empty or blank space, and superimposing or projecting onto it the audio and meaning categories “voidness.” This does not mean, however, that when conceptually focusing on voidness, we necessarily also must have a mental aspect resembling the sound of the vowels and consonants of the word “voidness.” The conceptual cognition of voidness may be nonverbal. Nevertheless, since the mental representations (the conceptual categories) that appear in conceptual cognition are necessarily appearances of true existence, the empty or blank space appears to be a voidness that truly exists in the concrete category “voidness.” The meaning category associated with it, however, is the correct meaning of voidness – namely, the absolute absence of true existence.

Voidness that is beyond concepts can only be cognized nonconceptually, but it cannot be cognized by nonconceptual mental cognition. Nonconceptual mental cognition produces a mental aspect of something not truly existing as a “this” or a “that.” However, voidness that is beyond concepts is beyond all four extremes:

 

1. truly existing as a “this” or a “that,”
2. not truly existing as a “this” or a “that,”
3. both truly and not truly existing as a “this” or a “that,”
4. neither truly nor non-truly existing as a “this” or a “that.”
   Therefore, voidness that is beyond concepts does not cognitively appear as a mental aspect of an empty or blank space that appears to be a voidness in the category of a non-truly existent “ voidness.” 

[See: Affirmations, Negations, and Denumerable and Nondenumerable Ultimate Phenomena.]

 

There are few important points that the above para is trying to convey. First 'non-conceptuality' lies in understanding ‘voidness’ conceptually first. That is, having clarity of the ‘concept of voidness’ is an important condition for the arising of non-conceptuality. This is not separating 'conditions' from the arising of a phenomenon. That is when the propensity to divide is there, understanding conceptually is necessary -- conceptuality leading to non-conceptuality. There are other conditions for prajna wisdom it arise like practicing ‘bare attention’.  Second is the emphasis of a 'void background' is an illusion of the mind rather than a direct experience of 'voidness'. 

 

I think there is a missing link here. In my opinion strong emphasis should also be place on the